Comments on Crossword Unclued: What are Ximenean clues?

I did struggle to find this book in the UK too. Ev...

2010-01-13T02:15:58.376+05:30

I did struggle to find this book in the UK too. Even the popular book stores like WH Smith and John Smith would only list it but won't sell it. Finally, managed to buy it from Amazon for a whopping 24 quid while the list price is only 7.95 as Vasi sir quoted. Haven't started reading it yet but I hope it's good.

Another edit: Removed the statement about "foundat...

2010-01-07T21:48:38.597+05:30

Another edit: Removed the statement about "foundation of cryptic crosswords".

I see your point. Edited to include the word "mode...

2010-01-06T20:01:01.293+05:30

I see your point. Edited to include the word "modern" in it. Thanks.

Shuchi, Derek Harrison's page gets it right by ad...

2010-01-06T19:07:25.998+05:30

Shuchi,

Derek Harrison's page gets it right by adding the key word "modern" in front of "crossword puzzle" (though it forgets "cryptic"). I don't know where the the Times journalist got the phrase from, but wiki seems to have just got it from the Times.

The marked price on my copy of the book - the one ...

2010-01-06T10:51:04.675+05:30

The marked price on my copy of the book - the one that was reprinted by Swallowtail Books in 2001, not the one that I procured in the 1970s - is GBP 7.95.

@Peter: Re: "father of cryptic crosswords", the te...

2010-01-06T10:18:13.722+05:30

@Peter: Re: "father of cryptic crosswords", the term does seem to be used for Ximenes rather a lot, though how well-deserved it is may be open to question. References: Derek Harrison's page, Times Online article, Wikipedia.

@CVasi: I've tried to solve some of Ximenes' puzzles (Source: http://home.freeuk.net/dharrison/ximenes/pindex.htm) and then seen his clues in the book. I have only managed to flip through the book borrowed. Don't know about boring, from what I saw of his clues I was very impressed!

Wanted to touch upon deviations from Ximenean standards in modern puzzles, but the article was getting too long, so have reserved that for a follow-up. Alberich's 2nd article linked from the post talks about this. I particularly like the anecdote at the end of his article.

@gauri: Thank you! You're in US, aren't you? I found the book on Amazon US, but priced at $108. You might get a better deal if you order from UK, even with international shipping.

As always, very resourceful. I was introduced to X...

2010-01-06T08:40:53.356+05:30

As always, very resourceful. I was introduced to Ximenean clues only a year ago, but that's one thing you can never read enough of. If I remember right, Nimish had posted some chapters of the book on Facebook.

Will look the books up.

gauri

Shuchi, Do you know when I got this book? Way bac...

2010-01-06T07:46:03.740+05:30

Shuchi,

Do you know when I got this book?
Way back in the early 1970s.

I must have seen the title in a catalogue in the British Council library here in Madras.

And those were the days when there were all kinds of import restrictions by the GoI.

And we didn't have the Internet for online purchases.

I placed a special order with a bookshop in a historic building on Mount Road, Madras, who got the single copy for me.

The building is still there but the shop is gone in the face of assault by modern-day big chain shops.

I agree that the book is a seminal work. It gave me an insight into the art.

But crosswords have come a long way and while there are some that do not follow any principles (I needn't give you examples of Indian composers) there are those UK crosswords that are aslo very good though they may not strictly follow all of the X principles.

What I would say is a crossword composer must follow rules and principles even if they be set by him (or her) and be consistent in their application.

Incidentally, you may not have solved any puzzles by Ximenes, have you? I have a book of his crosswords but let me say that some of the clues could be rather boring if they are set against those crafted by some of the modern-day practitioners.

I'm not sure that Ximenes is necessarily the best ...

2010-01-05T22:36:46.680+05:30

I'm not sure that Ximenes is necessarily the best ever, though he's a strong contender. I don't know where "father of cryptic crosswords" comes from, but he wasn't - if any single person was, it was his predecessor Torquemada.

It's rather an exaggeration to say that his rules were the foundation of cryptic crosswords in his time - they were gradually adopted by the daily paper puzzles (though still not quite in full) over a period of 20-30 years after his book appeared.