Want Help Deconstructing Clues? ~ Crossword Unclued

Monday, August 11, 2008

Want Help Deconstructing Clues?

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If you have the clue text and its solution, but can't figure out how the clue leads to the solution - you can post both in the comments section. I'll try to help with analyzing the clue.

Note: Please post cryptic crossword clues only!

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42 comments

KarSub said...

Hi Suchi,

Your blog is very well written and neatly organized. I liked that you have kept your writing simple and you have chosen a white theme, which makes me feel like that there's a big board called "Demystified Here!"

My question is pretty simple THC 9366 -


17a Firearm, good French one (3)


I know the answer, but ..why?

Shuchi said...

Glad that you like the blog.

The clue you asked about is a charade.

Firearm = definition
good = G (the abbreviation for good)
French one = UN (the number 1 in French)

So the answer is GUN.

KarSub said...

Hi Shuchi,

Help again - THC 9368

British honor would exclude one beginning to tope (7)

How does the net come in?

Shuchi said...

It's like this:

British honor = definition [should've been spelt 'honour', since we're talking British not American :) ]

would = connector

exclude = BAR
one = ONE
beginning to tope = the letter T

So it is a charade, giving BAR ONE T.

Mithr said...

Hi i am a newbie with hindu crossword, so trying to figure out how to solve based on solutions!
Could you help me solve this
Tempts with ten cooked desserts (7)

answer: entices. how does ices make cooked desserts ?

Shuchi said...

@Mithr: 'cooked' is an anagram indicator for 'ten' here, not an adjective for 'desserts'. Read it this way:
ten (cooked) + desserts = anagram of TEN + ICES = ENTICES

Words like cooked, scrambled, baked, etc. tend to be anagram indicators in cryptic clues. For further reading: How To Spot Anagrams.

Anish said...

Hello Shuci!

Wonderful work in here. :-)


Here's my doubt and I sure shall pepper you with many more.

THC 9511:

Profile of Conservative leader visiting constituencies? (7)

Thanks in advance.

Shuchi said...

Hi Anish, The answer should be CONTOUR, but I know that it doesn't fit into the grid!

conservative=C, visting constituencies=ON TOUR, and profile is the definition.

Seems to be an error here, as this doesn't match the crossings. Let's wait for tomorrow's solutions to see what the compiler expected. My guess is, the answer will turn out to be COUNTOR.

Nischal said...

Hi, can u explain the annotation of the following clues
1) Unhappy dictator offering no obstruction(3)--> SAD
- unhappy--> defn.. but why "dictator..."
2)Cover for head with hard manner(4)--> HAIR
- Cover for head is HAIR
hard manner??

3) Seen as animal is about to pull back(8)--> REGARDED..
4) Interferes with first time service-person (6)-->PRIEST

Source: ET Bangalore July 26,2009

Shuchi said...

Hi Nischal,

1) SAD = SADDAM (dictator) - DAM (obstruction)

2) HAIR = charade of H (standard abbrev. for 'hard') AIR (manner, as in 'he has a regal air')

3) REGARDED = DEER (animal) around DRAG (pull), all reversed (back is the reversal indicator)

4) PRIEST = charade of PRIES (interferes) T (first letter of 'time')

Aim said...

From Guardian:
Someone on the go drinking mineral also (8)MOREOVER

Couldn't understand this one.

Shuchi said...

Welcome here, Aim!

Someone on the go drinking mineral also (8)MOREOVER
also: definition
someone on the go = MOVER
drinking = c/c indicator
mineral = ORE

Aim said...

Aha! now makes sense, thanks!
I cound't get it despite knowing the answer and definition.

Aim said...

How about this clue, which I wrote?
It takes freshman to stop the prisoner (6)

Am not posting it here for you to solve it, but to know if it makes sense.

Shuchi said...

It takes freshman to stop the prisoner (6)
I think the surface is fair enough. It is grammatically sound, and though one might wonder "why freshman?" - something like IG or head of police is more plausible - but it's acceptable.

The issue is with the cryptic grammar. "stop the", isn't the same as "stop of the" or "the's stop". I like 'freshman' = NMA, but even that's considered not OK by strict standards.

An interesting attempt, though. See if you can re-write the E part!

Aim said...

Thanks Shuchi. I did want to know your opinion about the freshman and the 'E' part.

Aim said...

One more, written by me:

Men assemble in unknown country (7)

Shuchi said...

The anagrind needs to be either an instruction to the solver [Assemble XYZ], or a property of the fodder [XYZ assembled]. The 2nd way would fit in well with your clue.

I also think unknown = DARK is slightly imprecise. How about mysterious/dismal/sinister instead of unknown?

Aim said...

Thanks Shuchi.
Yes, you are right on both counts.
Especially about the anagrind I never thought it that way.

Aim said...

I like Sankalak. In today's CW I particularly liked "Carbon become aluminium? After negative start? Happening in the night? (9)", for the way it framed it.

But was wondering is there grammatical mistake? 'Carbon become' or 'Carbon becomes?'

Shuchi said...

'become' isn't grammatically correct for the surface, but if it's 'becomes' it'll spoil the answer (becomes = TURNS not TURN).

Is this a Sankalak clue?

Aim said...

Yes it was Sankalak.
Of course Carbon becomes aluminium will spoil the clue. Doesn't Carbon become aluminium still spoil it?

Shuchi said...

Well, 'become' spoils the surface, 'becomes' spoils the wordplay. He chose the lesser evil of the two.

Aim said...

:)
You always give convincing reply :)

fiddlesticks said...

Hi,
Totally didn't get this one! - THC 9283
She has managed a first class title (7) - LETITIA

Shuchi said...

Hi fiddlesticks,
It's first class = A1, jumbled with TITLE. "has managed" is the anagrind.

Hat-tip to Vinod (via chat) for spotting it straightaway.

Chaturvasi said...

"Carbon become aluminium? After negative start? Happening in the night? (9)"

I ahppen to see this section and this discussion only today. Sorry for a late reaction.

I would think that the clue written is OK. I take 'become' as a past participle with 'has' understood.

Don't we come across the expression "Dream come true", where we mean that a deram that we had has since come true.

Of course, we had an editor in Indian Express, whom I looked upon as a scholar and who wrote excellent English with a literary flavour, arguing that the expression "Dream come true" was wrong. But, for me usage is idiomatic.

sriks7 said...

New here.Great job on this blog. Looking forward to spending a lot of time here
I need help in deconstructing one from the Guardian..

Kelly becomes well-informed by following one who wrote nonsense (7)

Could you please help?

Shuchi said...

Hi sriks7,

Thanks and I look forward to having you here.

Kelly becomes well-informed by following one who wrote nonsense (7) LEAR NED

This is one of those rare cases where the definition sits in the middle. NED (Kelly) follows LEAR (one who wrote nonsense), to become LEARNED (well-informed).

Guardian crosswords are discussed on the daily solving blog 15sqd. It's a great site, bookmark it!

Owen said...

Hi Shuchi :)

First of all, thanks a lot for running this site. I'm still very much an amateur at cryptic crosswords but this site has been really helpful to me. Thanks!

I've got one from the Times that I'm having difficulty understanding, if you wouldn't mind:

Slight reduction in price coming on stream for barbecue (9)

So as not to spoil it for anyone else, the answer is here (Link is to Dictionary.com via bit.ly)

Thanks in advance!

Owen

Shuchi said...

Hi Owen, welcome here.

Slight reduction in price coming on stream for barbecue (9)

price = CHARGE,
Slight reduction in price => delete a little bit of CHARGE. Usually, in the Times, this implies a single-letter truncation at the end of the word. (With some of the Guardian setters, the truncation could be of 2 letters or even more.)
'coming on' is a link word between the wordplay components.
stream = RILL

'for' links the wordplay to the definition, 'barbecue'.

Owen said...

Thank you, that's brilliant! I didn't actually know the word "rill", so you learn something new every day :)

Thanks again,
Owen

Sumitra said...

Hi,
Being new, I came across this post dtd Aug 9 2009 from Aim-a clue,'it takes freshman to stop the prisoner'. What did u mean by the'NMA' and 'E' parts of the clue and what is the solution? You see, I've been solving crosswords with no idea of the technicalities involved and am astounded by the depth and precision of your site. Kudos to you! And thanks. Sumitra

Shuchi said...

Hi Sumitra, the expected solution for 'It takes freshman to stop the prisoner (6)' is INMATE.

freshman = fresh-MAN i.e anagram of MAN
It takes freshman => IT contains (MAN)*
'stop the' is supposed to indicate E, the last letter of 'the'.

The main problem is that 'stop the' isn't the same as 'stop of the'. It isn't considered OK to join the anagrind and fodder as in 'freshman' (I don't mind it much, personally).

See clue#2 on this post about unXimenean clues, for a clue with a similar issue.

Sumitra said...

Thank you, Shuchi

AlmostThere said...

Hi Shuchi. I try to make sense of all the clues/answers when I complete a crossword. I have a few I'm stuck on that you may be able to explain for me:

[PRETTIER]
Publicity row about film being made more attractive
>'more attractive' = 'prettier' but what about the rest?

[LAOS]
Where you may have a kip for money

[CUTE]
Clever stroke to point

[YORKSHIRE]
Grit found in the pudding?
>I know of 'yorkshire pudding' but where does 'grit' come into this?

[TALISMAN]
Scottish charm
>talisman = charm, but where does 'scottish' come in?

[YARN]
Long pointless story
>this looks like a straight clue to me, am I missing the 'cryptic' behind it?

[SIDE]
Team’s boastful manner
>team = side, but where does 'boastful manner' come in?

[DOWNING STREET]
Drunk deserting town road where policeman stands guard

[FACTIONS]
Loud goings-on associated with
society parties

[PROMOTERS]
They stage sporting events in favour of cars we hear

[ONE FOR THE ROAD]
Ill-advised drink taken by somebody going from saloon to saloon?

...Ok, maybe there were a bit more than a few :) but I hope you can help anyway

Shuchi said...

Hi AlmostThere,
Answering the first few...have to step out for dinner, will get back later on the others. Which crossword are these from? Maybe there's a solution blog/forum for it out there somewhere.

[PRETTIER]
Publicity row about film being made more attractive
>'more attractive' = 'prettier' but what about the rest?
PR (publicity) + TIER (row) around ET (film)

[LAOS]
Where you may have a kip for money
This is a cryptic definition. 'Kip' is the currency of Laos.

[CUTE]
Clever stroke to point
CUT (stroke) E (point). defn: clever


[YORKSHIRE]
Grit found in the pudding?
>I know of 'yorkshire pudding' but where does 'grit' come into this?
Perhaps 'grit found in [this place]' has to do with the sedimentary rock formations in Yorkshire.

[TALISMAN]
Scottish charm
>talisman = charm, but where does 'scottish' come in?
The Talisman is a novel by Sir Walter Scott.

[YARN]
Long pointless story
>this looks like a straight clue to me, am I missing the 'cryptic' behind it?
Long = YEARN, pointless => remove the 'E', defn: story. It's interesting that the whole clue reads like the definition too.

[SIDE]
Team’s boastful manner
>team = side, but where does 'boastful manner' come in?
'pretentious air;arrogance' is a secondary meaning of SIDE.

Shuchi said...

The remaining ones...

[DOWNING STREET]
Drunk deserting town road where policeman stands guard
Anagram of (DESERTING TOWN), with 'drunk' as anagrind. defn: where policeman stands guard


[FACTIONS]
Loud goings-on associated with society parties
F (loud) ACTIONS (goings-on)

[PROMOTERS]
They stage sporting events in favour of cars we hear
defn: They stage sporting events; we hear => homophone; PRO (in favour of) MOTORS (cars)

[ONE FOR THE ROAD]
Ill-advised drink taken by somebody going from saloon to saloon?
'Ill-advised drink taken by somebody going from saloon' refers to the meaning of the idiom, with 'saloon' = bar. The second 'saloon' can mean a sedan car, which is also 'one for the road'.

AlmostThere said...

Thanks Shuchi, you're so clever! All the clues make sense now :-)!

The clues are all from The Daily Telegraph Cryptic Crossword Book, Volume 62.

Anonymous said...

Can you please help with this one from the telegraph yesterday (24/5/10)?

Issue raised by a gold prospector.

The answer was clementine but I just cant work out why!!!

Shuchi said...

Have you heard this song? It opens with:

In a cavern, in a canyon,
Excavating for a mine
Dwelt a miner forty niner,
And his daughter Clementine


That's what the clue is alluding to. Issue => the daughter of the miner.

By the Telegraph, do you mean The Daily Telegraph of UK? If so, you must follow Big Dave's blog.

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much Shuchi I can now get some sleep!